THE BEAUTY: Official Podcast Episode 4: Anthony Ramos and Jeremy Pope

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Welcome back to "The Beauty Official Podcast."

I'm Evan Ross Katz, podcaster and pop culture prophet, here to get my booster shot of "The Beauty."

Joining me today are Grammy-winning Emmy and Golden Globe nominated actor and singer Anthony Ramos, and Emmy, Grammy, Golden Globe and Tony nominee, actor and singer Jeremy Pope, to talk about their roles as the assassin and his beauty-transformed protege.

Anthony Ramos, Jeremy Pope, thank you so much for being here.

Now it's my understanding that you two go back. You two are friends. Your relationship predates this show. Talk to me about the origin of this friendship.

JEREMY POPE: What friendship?

ANTHONY RAMOS: What friendship?

JEREMY POPE: You're like, oh.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: OK, well, this is going to be therapy where we—

JEREMY POPE: Right, yeah.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: work through it and—

JEREMY POPE: Hash it out. You know what I mean? No, I mean, this is fam. This is—

ANTHONY RAMOS: What, we've been for like, 15 years?

JEREMY POPE: Yeah, we went to college together, so we've known each other since 2010.

ANTHONY RAMOS: That's crazy.

JEREMY POPE: We've just done so much life kind of in tandem, you know, next to each other, alongside each other, championing each other. So to now arrive at this moment and be able to literally get paid to cut up with one of your good friends is—

ANTHONY RAMOS: Crazy.

JEREMY POPE: —really, really special.

Yeah. You know, we've been homies for-- for a long time, and we've been wanting to work together and do something for a long time. You know, finally, not only do we get to work together, but we really get to like work together in this-- in this joint, you know what I'm saying?

EVAN ROSS KATZ: You sure do. Now, obviously, you've known each other for 15 years, but what was it like when you found out that you were both going to be working alongside your friend and-- and have many scenes together?

JEREMY POPE: Yeah, right. I mean, I think I had talked to Ryan, you know, pretty early on in the process of him building this and to hear he was like, I'm interested in Anthony Ramos. And it was like before he even got the last name out, I was like, it's a yes. It's a hell yes. Like, he's-- he's good people. He's like, that's-- that's what I want, that's what you want. And I was so grateful to hear that he was open to it. And we didn't know at the beginning how much or how involved our characters would be on paper or on screen. So to read those episodes and get further into the script and see like actually, we get to spend a lot of time, I won't say most, but a lot of screen time together.

ANTHONY RAMOS: Yeah. I mean, most, you could, yeah, most.

JEREMY POPE: Was trying to tease it.

ANTHONY RAMOS: Yeah, I guess, right. Yeah, I guess you can't give nothing away.

JEREMY POPE: We spent a little time.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Well, I want to find out from you both, what reaction did you have when you first found out reading the script and saying, I'm going to delve into this and really enter this world.

ANTHONY RAMOS: I didn't read anything until-- until after I got the job. Like, Ryan-- Ryan just called me and told me Jeremy was in it, and I was super excited about that. And he was like, yo, you and Jeremy get to like, you guys got a lot of scenes together, so at least I know I'm going to have a good time doing it, you know.

And he's explaining this character to me. He's like, he's this assassin. He's-- he's 65, but he gets The Beauty. And when he actually sent the scripts, it was interesting to-- to see how it started to unfold. And I really loved how in episode 3, a big scene in episode 3, when we're in the car and we're driving together and I'm singing the Christopher Cross song. (SINGING) Sailing takes me away to where I always heard it could be. Interestingly enough, that was the first scene we shot day one, so it was cool starting to get to know these guys and starting to-- to-- to dig deep. And Ryan was like, I want to be able to create a character where you can show parts of you off that you may not have had the opportunity to in the past, which is something that I really loved and was-- and am really grateful for. He's great at that.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: For people that don't know, how atypical is that? Because I mean, I'm outside of the industry, but I imagine that's a rarity.

JEREMY POPE: Yeah, I mean—

ANTHONY RAMOS: For sure.

JEREMY POPE: —I think it is a rarity. And I think what I've learned is, you find the people that you fuck with in this industry, in this business as a creative, and you want to only work with them, because it can be such a beautiful experience. This is, I don't know, number three or four project that I've done with Ryan, and each one has been very different. I feel like being a part of his company of works is, it reminds me of like someone that understands you as a multifaceted, nuanced artist. Doesn't just say, hey, you're this and I only want you to do that. He's like, I want you to explore yourself and learn about yourself through the different characters that are in these worlds. So when he hit me up, he was like, hey, you want to read something weird? And for Ryan to say that, you're kind of like, but isn't everything we do weird? You know what I mean? Like, you're not really saying nothing.

But then when he sent it, I said, oh, this is weird. There was a darkness to this-- this character and, that I normally am not being asked to come in with. That's to me, what my experience has been with Ryan, it's-- it's an open-ended comma conversation. You just continue to create, and then you learn about yourself. And I love that as an artist, to be stretched and to be championed by someone who just is down to-- to watch you soar, to watch you vibrate at the highest level.

ANTHONY RAMOS: Yeah.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: So you're having the conversations, you're reading the scripts, when did you start to get a sense of how physical these roles would be?

ANTHONY RAMOS: Oh, man. That fight we had in the hotel room. I know. Fantastic new look. But then blammo, life just comes at you real fast, doesn't it?

JEREMY POPE: Yeah, that was crazy.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Oh my God.

ANTHONY RAMOS: Crazy.

JEREMY POPE: I knew when they had four stunt doubles like on the schedule, I was like, oh, we about to be in there—

ANTHONY RAMOS: Brawling.

JEREMY POPE: slanging.

ANTHONY RAMOS: Brawling.

JEREMY POPE: Oh, they got us slanging in the walls. And me and Ant were like physically, we're getting our bodies into shape. And it felt like we were really making sure our bodies were able to do whatever was going to be asked of us.

ANTHONY RAMOS: You had that wild transformation scene, too.

JEREMY POPE: Oh!

ANTHONY RAMOS: You had to do that mad, like a bunch of times, didn't you?

JEREMY POPE: Yeah. That was pretty gnarly, because again, working with Ryan, like he follows instinct and intuition and like, if it's not right, like we're going to get it, we're going to get it right, you know. So I'm thinking, we got these stunt doubles, like, throw me in for the close up. You know what I mean, when we're here. But like we got there and the transformation changed, and then it was just easier for me to do it, given that I can move, I'm physical, I dance. So Ryan was interested in capturing that. I remember for the transformation, he was like, when you come out of this sack, I want to watch you basically like learn how to walk, like walking for the first time and feeling your body and the muscles for the first time. So he saw it more as like instead of the horror of it, like let's lean into the like joy of this, like ballet of this person. And it's the first transformation we see.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Yes.

JEREMY POPE: So I was the Guinea pig as far as how much K-Y Jelly do we use on this human to make it look slimy or—

ANTHONY RAMOS: Yeah, it was crazy.

JEREMY POPE: Like that was madness.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: I want to— I want to ask about that just because it's—

ANTHONY RAMOS: Crazy.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: It's-- it's-- it's-- it's quite something to behold. How much K-Y Jelly was used?

JEREMY POPE: Bro, I'm still, I'm still taking K-Y Jelly off.

ANTHONY RAMOS: Never thought you was going to get asked that in the history of your career.

JEREMY POPE: I'm still wiping that K-Y Jelly off me, man. That shit was crazy, because again, they-- everyone's there for Ryan's vision, and he was like, more. I feel like every take was, like, more. We want more blood. We want more K-Y Jelly. We want more movement. And like, it was-- it was a lot. And then because you're resetting, you just keep applying, and K-Y Jelly, it dries in a very weird way. And when you mix that with, I think at one point I had like Cantu conditioner on me, because that was white and it gave a texture on camera. Like, that was crazy.

ANTHONY RAMOS: Crazy, crazy, crazy.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: You talked about getting your bodies into shape, and obviously, the show is called "The Beauty." It's very much focused on aesthetics.

JEREMY POPE: Right.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: And did you feel an added pressure with this project around getting your physical self into its best state possible, or is that typical when you get assigned to a job?

ANTHONY RAMOS: It just depends on the job. For this one, I would say that, yeah, I was like, yeah, I should probably look like I've been training a little bit.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Mission accomplished.

ANTHONY RAMOS: Yeah, thanks. Thanks, you know. Come on. And it's just trying to fit the mold of what the show is and what the world tells people that what beautiful is supposed to look like, right. This person's in shape, and they have this certain kind of facial structure.

JEREMY POPE: Yeah.

ANTHONY RAMOS: This. And so it was just kind of like doing what whatever's in your power and whatever's in, whatever you have the ability to do to match or try to match up to whatever your character's supposed to be, the new beautiful version of-- of who you are. And in my case, my guy's 65, turns into to me. But then you see he still has the eye patch. And it didn't quite pan out the way he thought it would. He's also a bodyguard. And then he becomes an assassin. So you gotta make sure you're physically fit to-- to defend, but also go out and kill.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: What about for you?

JEREMY POPE: It was interesting, because initially, I was having a little trouble separating one, the name. So a lot of times you're like, oh, this is the character I'm playing, and you can put any type of work that you build as an artist, as an actor, like you put that on the character and your way into the character. But then because the character's name was Jeremy and it felt like we were-- I was building this with Ryan, I was like, so is this a version of me? Like, you were trying to figure out how much of me, especially because we're doing a transformation. There's the Jeremy one and there's the Jeremy two. I think I became a lot more aware of myself. And then I had to talk myself through that, like in a very human way, because I think it's one thing to do a show, work on a project and if people think you're sexy, they think you're sexy. But to have a show that's talking about that, exploring that thematically, you feel like now you're putting yourself on the front line to—

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Totally.

JEREMY POPE: —be objectified. So once we started to get around each other and start to actually play in the world, it felt a little bit better. But I think at the beginning, there was this like, do I need to get in crazy shape? Do I need, like, what do I need to do, like?

ANTHONY RAMOS: What do I need to do.

JEREMY POPE: Yeah, you know what I mean?

ANTHONY RAMOS: I got to get poked a couple times.

JEREMY POPE: Yeah, like what—

ANTHONY RAMOS: What's going on.

JEREMY POPE: Yeah, it's a real thing. Like, the skincare regimen became-- I was upping it up. I became super aware of what the audience was going to be seeing.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Yeah.

JEREMY POPE: I think if anything, just more like hypersensitive to the thing.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Well, that's really interesting about a project like this.

And I had this reaction in watching the show of like thinking about obviously, there's the events that take place on the show, but applying them to real life, because I'm wondering how many conversations about the themes and the events of the show did you find yourself having outside of the workplace?

ANTHONY RAMOS: I mean, I feel like it happens more and more nowadays. Like, I think-- I think more than ever, really. Like, I'm like, I'm seeing homies getting Botox and they're like 25, and I'm like, yo, you good? Like, I mean, your skin looks good. But they're like, you got to start early. And then like, another one of my friends told me about this thing that you can get that it pumps some kind of vitamins in you that you stop getting when you're 28. But y'all know anything about this? It's just wild how much is available now to enhance your beauty and your health and—

EVAN ROSS KATZ: When you hear stuff like that, when you hear about these like new inventions or these off market products, does it intrigue you, are you kind of like reticent, or what is your reaction to hearing about these I don't know if you want to call them innovations, but I just feel like every day I wake up and there's like some new thing-- Right. --that someone I love is telling me about and I'm like, I trust this person, but I'm also like, what the fuck.

ANTHONY RAMOS: I mean, I'm fully intrigued. I mean, like when I go to the aquarium or the museum, I'm like, I'm intrigued by the shark in there, but I ain't getting up and swimming with the shark, you know. But I'm like, wow, look how crazy that shark is. You know, and like, you know. But I'm, yeah, I'm definitely intrigued. Like, they're pumping electricity in people's abs now, and apparently, it's like the equivalent of 25,000 crunches or something like that.

JEREMY POPE: Oh, yeah, I've heard of that for working out.

ANTHONY RAMOS: Or something like that, then there's these facials that are, they're not regular facials. They do, I can't remember what.

JEREMY POPE: Red light current, blue light current.

ANTHONY RAMOS: All that.

JEREMY POPE: Yeah, yeah.

ANTHONY RAMOS: So there's so much available.

JEREMY POPE: I think, I'm definitely, it is intriguing. It's intriguing to see where we are culturally and socially and what is considered less taboo now. We've talked about it in different spaces, but the simple fact of braces, that is-- that's OK. You-- you want to fix your teeth, please do, so you can smile and smile and means you're happy, so you can be happy. So I think about that to then now, like, oh, I want to change my hair color or my haircut, or now I want Botox or I want lip filler because I want my lips to do this or my nose to do that. And like, who's the judge to say what is too much or this or that when ultimately, it's you. Whatever we do on the outside is really about what's going on the inside, you know. So I try to start there. Like, what-- what's the thing that I'm trying to scratch? What's the thing that I'm-- I'm getting to? So it's intriguing to see how far we can go with technology—

ANTHONY RAMOS: Yeah. And with this commerce of people excited about feeling like the best versions of themselves.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: As we wrap this conversation up, when you zoom out onto the entirety of this project, you're talking about these initial phone calls with Ryan, scripts coming in, first day on set, shooting all of these episodes, when you zoom out and look at this experience, what do you take away from the entirety of this process?

ANTHONY RAMOS: It is nice when you are working on a project where the producers and directors, they have the freedom to, especially the showrunner, has just has the freedom to do almost anything. And like, they put me in some really beautiful clothes and I mean, they put us all in some really amazing—

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Coats.

ANTHONY RAMOS: Yo, crazy. Unbelievable.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: What about for you?

JEREMY POPE: I got to travel. I got to creatively do something I've never done before. I got to work with my boy, Ant. Yeah. And I'm excited to-- to bring this to the world. I think Ryan has a hit on this one. I think this one's going to-- it's going to make people think and start necessary conversation. It's entertaining in that way. And I'm excited to see the chatter and see how people receive the work.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: I totally agree with you. I think it implicates the audience in a really exciting way. Well, thank you both for being here. It was such a pleasure, and continued success.

JEREMY POPE: Thank you.

ANTHONY RAMOS: Thank you, thanks for having us.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: That's all for this time.

On the next podcast, a conversation you won't want to miss. I'm talking to the incomparable Ashton Kutcher, who plays a big pharma billionaire. He not only bankrolls The Beauty, he's also a regular user. You can check it out on Hulu, Hulu on Disney Plus or YouTube. Watch the next episode of "The Beauty" on FX or stream on Hulu. And if you're a bundle subscriber, you can watch it on Hulu on Disney Plus. Lots of places to check out this hot new show. Be sure to rate, review, and follow "The Beauty Official Podcast" wherever you watch or listen.

I'm Evan Ross Katz and I'll see you next time.