Episode 3 | The Shards Official Audio Podcast

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Welcome back to The Shards official podcast. I'm Evan Ross Katz, podcaster and pop culture provocateur. Joining me today are costume designers Lou Eyrich and Josh Marsh. 

So excited to have you both here. So correct me if I'm wrong, but the first time you two worked together was actually with Ryan Murphy on Monster: The Ed Gein Story. Lou- Mm-hmm ... you were a co-executive producer, and Josh, you were the costume designer. Now you're here together working on costumes for The Shards.

What excited you both most about the project beyond the chance to work with one another and work on another Ryan Murphy joint?  

LOU EYRICH: For me, it was because I was traveling with Ryan and he told me about the book, and he was so excited about it. And whenever I see Ryan that excited about something, I'm like, "I'm, I'm on board." 

And then I started listening to it, and I was hooked. And I would, like, stay up late listening. And I was like, "I cannot wait to jump into this one."  

JOSH MARSHALL: All in, I probably read the book at le- at least four times at this point. The book itself, the, the story was really thrilling, but also [00:01:00] the way that Bret Easton Ellis writes and talks about clothes and locations and the texture of experiences. 

LOU EYRICH: The music.  

JOSH MARSH: Yeah. It was so... It was all so fully embodied that it was really exciting to then get a script and be able to kind of build that out with so much information in the source material as well.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Well, yeah, let's get into that source material. So this is an '80s period piece. Takes place in the early 1980s, so we're coming out of the 1970s.

But I'm wondering what excited you both most about getting to explore this time period through fashion.  

LOU EYRICH: Ryan does very detailed concept meetings before we even start a show. And he delves into everything from the music and the, the lighting of California in August. And he sets a tone and, uh, and a color palette and everything that, that then Josh and I, uh, delved into with the, the research.

And, and Josh and Sarita, the assistant, really had to pore into all the, the magazines and online and everything. But I think what we got so excited about was Ryan wanted to not do the part of the '80s that most people think it's gonna be, the big shoulders and the bright colors and the hard silhouettes, and did wanna do more late '70s, like American Gigolo, uh, Kramer vs. Kramer. It's a more sophisticated, elegant-  

JOSH MARSH: Elevated 

LOU EYRICH: Elevated style than what you think of as the '80s. Mm-hmm.

JOSH MARSH: Yeah, and it's also that there's a line actually in the book where he talks about 8- 1981 as a rejection of '70s kitsch, and we really glommed onto that.  

EVAN ROSS KATZ: You mention the book. You know, it's unusual in the research process to have such a rich text to pull from. 

JOSH MARSH: Yeah.  

EVAN ROSS KATZ: You talked about, you know, listening to the audiobook. So how much were you using the book as a reference point, you know, as a source of research to go into making this project?

LOU EYRICH: Daily.

JOSH MARSH: Yeah. I mean, we had copies of the book in the office. We had this kind of grid that, um, Sarita, our incredible [00:03:00] assistant, put together of all of the kind of wardrobe references throughout the book, 'cause there's a lot of them.

LOU EYRICH: Yeah.

JOSH MARSH: And it would basically have, like, the, the pull quote and the page and all that, and then you could go back and read the context because it wasn't often that we were, like, directly recreating these, these moments. But it was just exciting to have that much to go on and then to understand even, like, the locations that they would source their clothes from, like Giorgio's in Beverly Hills and, and things like that.

Just having the book to kind of build out the world so you can think like the character.

CLIP: I remember, and I don't know why, that I was wearing a fashionable new Ralph Lauren shirt, brown with a touch of white gray stripes, and Calvin Klein jeans with Gucci loafers.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: So it sounds like step one is this initial meeting with Ryan, kind of setting the tone of the world that he sees this show existing within.

If step two is then research, pouring yourself into artifacts of that time and everything, what is then step three?  

LOU EYRICH: Shopping, pulling, the, getting the fabric, starting to make everything, meeting the actors, speaking with the actors, getting them in for fittings.

JOSH MARSH: You get to know the actors and get to know their bodies, and you get to know, you know, stylistic language or visual languages for, for their characters as individuals.

And then you kind of start building this kind of foundation to the costume on screen.  

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Mm-hmm.

LOU EYRICH: And finding the sources, like finding who has good early '80s. It's not as easy to find as you would think it is 'cause it's-

JOSH MARSH: No...

LOU EYRICH: period, but you think it's of, it's not that period, but it's hard to find.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: It's funny you say it's not as easy as, uh, you would think 'cause I wouldn't think it was easy to begin with.

But, but, but on that subject, like, talk to us about the sourcing process, how it begins, and has the internet made it easier to source in a sense 'cause I imagine it makes you more connected, right?  

LOU EYRICH: Hands down ... Hands down easier. Of course. From back in the golden years when we had to just word of mouth, but...

JOSH MARSH: Hop on the horn. 

LOU EYRICH: Yeah. Um, I've done a lot of period shows, so I've got, I've built up quite a list of sources.  

JOSH MARSH: And then you're just going anywhere and everywhere because we needed so much volume because they all have loads of changes, and there's tons of characters and also tons and tons of background as well.

And they all need clothes.

LOU EYRICH: It's also, too, one of the things we really struggled with was fabrics. Like, because we did wanna make a lot of things, but finding the fabrics that can not look too shiny, too new. We struggled finding good fabrics for the early '80s.

JOSH MARSH: Because there's s- so many really special things that you, that they just don't weave the fabric that way anymore.

And so when you look at the vintage p- the genuine article, you can kind of tell the difference. And so it was trying to find things that, like, felt like the real deal.  

EVAN ROSS KATZ: It's so interesting what you point out because in addition to the aesthetic sensibilities changing over time, there's the way clothing is made- 

LOU EYRICH: Mm-hmm

EVAN ROSS KATZ: and how much that has changed. So it's so interesting, and I feel like this is a through line in Ryan's work, the specificity to detail, which it sounds like carries over to all the different departments, which is it's not just how it looks, it's how it ma- it's how it's made, which then informs how it looks.

LOU EYRICH: Yes, exactly.

JOSH MARSH: Well, one of the really exciting things about the '80s as a time period is the architecture of the clothes themselves. It was a cool era about silhouettes and architecture and shapes. You know, the pieces kind of have to be constructed in that very specific way, or it just doesn't look the same.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Right. So on the subject of sourcing versus making, how do you determine whether or not to find something that exists or to make something entirely new?

JOSH MARSH: I mean, I, I think that that actually part of the process is somewhat organic. Sometimes you're in a fitting and you find the coolest shape, or you find something that really, really excites you or feels just right, but it's not the right color, or it's, you know, got moth- moth-eaten or is just, in general, just doesn't look fresh and crisp.

It looks a bit weathered and poor. And so then you're kind of like, "Well, we can take this as, use this as a jumping-off point and, and make a, a fresh, crisp version of this." The approach is kind of a little bit of everything and ch- trying on a lot of different shapes and seeing what, what plays and what works, and then building from there. 

LOU EYRICH: And sometimes it comes from Ryan. And he will show you the picture. So you kind of work that way as well.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: So when that happens, is that an added pressure to then kind of say, "Okay, I need to find something that's reminiscent of this, but not replicating it?"

LOU EYRICH: Correct.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: That has the essence, and also I imagine that you all have a language that you speak with someone like Ryan, and sort of understanding what he's going for and wanting to figure out the exactness, again, without replicating.

LOU EYRICH: Exactly.

JOSH MARSH: That is also the, the beauty of getting to work with Lou is, you know, those meetings happen so fast and there's so much information.

And it's great to kind of be able to go back and be like, "Well, what do you think he means here, Lou?" Right. And, and to, to kind of help us on, on the journey together to, to find the perfect thing. 

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Would you say having worked with Ryan for so many decades now that you sort of understand him in a way that he doesn't even need to say it and you kind of pick up on things?

LOU EYRICH: Yeah, but he still ha- he still pulls out a surprise on me often. Yeah.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Keeps you on your toes?

LOU EYRICH: It's like, "What would Ryan do?" Um, yeah, keeps me on my toes. Okay. I love it.  

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Yeah. So not only is this a period piece, like we said, takes place in 1981, it's specific to its location, right? It's 1981 Los Angeles, so obviously there's a general style to the year in which the story takes place, but more specifically LA and the characters. 

And not only LA, wealth in LA. So how does the setting and this idea of second generation or generational wealth influence the approach to the costumes?

JOSH MARSH: Well, one element of that is when there is kind of, uh, extreme wealth, you are just thinking about what the clothes are and not how they got there, and not how did they get these clothes.

And it also opens up this idea of it doesn't just have to be Vogue, it could be European fashion magazines, if they're well-traveled in addition to being moneyed individuals. In the specific case of The Shards, we tried to infuse a little bit more sophistication and maturity into our teenage characters that made it really fun as they kind of moved through the world as little adults without any boundaries or supervision of any kind. 

EVAN ROSS KATZ: I'm wondering, did you both have a favorite character to dress?

JOSH MARSH: That's a tough one. I, I think my favorite thing to do on The Shards was get to do fittings with our incredible cast, but it feels like such a cop-out to say Jordan Roth as Steven Reinhart. Um, but I, I so looked forward to all of his fittings, and we had, we had the best time.

LOU EYRICH: He brought a suitcase full of his treasures, which were phenomenal, and he gets so excited about clothes, so it was really fun to do those fittings.

JOSH MARSH: Every single time he came back to LA, there would be new treasures.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Very Jordan.

LOU EYRICH: Yeah. The example of we put this perfect outfit on Jordan. We were all really excited about it, and he was really excited about it, and we're like, "What, you know, what would've been so good is, like, those super high, like, Gaultier pants.

This would make this outfit." And he's like, "Oh, I have a pair of those." And he, like, texted his people in New York, and they shipped it, and he wore it. It was like the next day.  

JOSH MARSH: And they were here the next day.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Wow. Wow.

Uh, now I asked if you had any particular favorite characters to costume. You both slyly evaded the question. 

But I'm wondering, were there favorite costumes to design?  

JOSH MARSH: I think, uh, everything, uh, no spoilers, but I, I think so many of the costumes in episode six were, were favorites of mine.

LOU EYRICH: Evan Rachel Wood, I loved everything she got to wear because that's my favorite era, that late '70s, kind of the chiana- Hmm ... that just drapes on the body, and little tiny spaghetti straps, and she wore them so well.

I, so I think I'd probably say that. Yeah.  

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Are there any details in the costumes that audiences might not consciously notice, but that were important to you both? 

LOU EYRICH: Maybe why Robert wears leather pants to school.

JOSH MARSH: Right.

LOU EYRICH: It's something Ryan Murphy specifically asked for, so I don't know if people will wonder, but it is a different choice.

JOSH MARSH: Yeah. The very first dress that Evan Rachel Wood wears as Liz, it was a real vintage piece, and it still had the original Giorgio's Beverly Hills tag in it, which a viewer would never know, but it just tickled me that it came from, you know, the actual source where she would've gotten it.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Oh, I love details like that.

So to close out, I wanna sort of look at the experience on the whole. What has made this one particularly special for you?  

LOU EYRICH: I can't even pinpoint what it is, but it, it had an excitement about it from the start that I was excited about it, and that it just flowed, even though it was a very, very hard show.

It just flowed. It was kinda like when we did the pilot of Glee, and I, I remember thinking, "Oh, another high school show." And then it ended up just being so special and fun- ... and went on for years. This had that same feeling of a lot of people coming on board excited to be there, and telling this story, and, and Ryan was so hands-on, which is always fun, 'cause it's just fun to feed off of his ideas and his energy. 

Just the, the, the cast got me excited.  

JOSH MARSH: The cast was incredible, and sometimes there's just an energy in the air that feels special. It was, it was, obviously it was challenging every day, but my God, it was so incredibly rewarding, and, uh, we felt so lucky and so blessed to have had that experience.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Well, I thank you both so much for your time, and congratulations.

The show looks magnificent. And I think there's some exciting both plot and costumes ahead.  

LOU EYRICH: Yes.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Yes.

JOSH MARSH: Oh, yes.

LOU EYRICH: It's a fun ride.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: It sure is.

LOU EYRICH: With a few jump scares along the way.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: This is very true.

JOSH MARSH: I am not the trawler. 

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Thank you for confirming. I didn't wanna ask you, but I'm glad we have it on record.

LOU EYRICH: No comment.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: No comment. All right, thank you both so much. 

LOU EYRICH: Thank you.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: That's all for this time. On the next podcast, I'll be joined by tenured theater producer and debut actor Jordan Roth. We'll be talking about everything from queerness in the '80s to Steven's signature wig. Be sure to rate, review, and follow The Shards official podcast. You can check it out on Hulu or wherever you get your podcasts, and watch new episodes of The Shards on FX and Hulu.

I'm Evan Ross Katz, and I'll see you next time.