Episode 6 | The Shards Official Audio Podcast

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Welcome back to The Shards official podcast. I'm Evan Ross Katz, podcaster and pop culture provocateur. Joining me today is the incredible production designer Cat Smith. 

So Cat, this is your second production with Ryan Murphy, your first being All's Fair. Can you tell us about how this project came on your radar?  

CAT SMITH: Well, uh, while we were wrapping up All's Fair, I heard that, that he was gonna do this project, and I had read about this book and had put it on my radar to read because of course it takes place in LA, it takes place at a private school in LA, and that is kind of my story too. 

So I felt like, "Oh my God, this is... I've always wanted to do something in the '80s, and this is exactly the kind of show that I would be perfect to do."  

EVAN ROSS KATZ: I imagine it had to be extra exciting, being someone that's from Los Angeles, but also as a production designer, to find out that this show set in Los Angeles is going to be filming in Los Angeles-

Which I feel like is really critical to the many facets of this show that I think work remarkably well. So was that an exciting component of this too, to find out that you were going to be able to shoot in the city itself?

CAT SMITH: Of course. I mean, if, if it had been filmed somewhere else, I, I would've been equally excited, but I mean to, to do it here is kind of phenomenal.

I- there's, there's always gonna be something that's a little bit more realistic about shooting it here, and also for me, because I pay attention to all of those details.  

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Right. You've had an extraordinary career in production design, obviously, and so I'm wondering what draws you to a particular production?

CAT SMITH: Well, I love period stuff because I love being able to put things in the set that people will recognize, even if they didn't live that time. My thing is to make sure that you get some emotional response from that person so they feel like they're, they're living it too.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Do you have an example of something that you put in the set that sort of speaks to what you're talking about now?

CAT SMITH: You know, something as silly as, like, soap on a rope.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Mm-hmm.

CAT SMITH: I think the smell of Charlie, that fragrance. I think we had that in somebody's bedroom on the vanity, and that just brings back everything. There's, like, a commercial that was very popular back then, and the smell of it is so suggestive of the '80s.

It's so, like, grandiose in a way which is kind of the '80s.  

EVAN ROSS KATZ: How do you discern between sort of thinking about production design in the big picture sense versus what you're talking about now, that specificity to detail, which I think is such a Ryan Murphy staple of saying, "I wanna have this specific fragrance from this time period on the nightstand because-"  

CAT SMITH: Yeah

EVAN ROSS KATZ: "even if it's just in the background, it means something to building out the world of this show"?

CAT SMITH: Yes. No, that's absolutely true. So big picture-wise, I create sort of a, a very large grouping of research from that era, and I kind of plaster all the walls of the art department with it. And then it comes to, like, what is it about these environments that you love?

Do you love the, like, sunken living rooms? Do you love the carpeted bathrooms? You love, uh, the simplicity or the minimalism of the architecture mixed with this kind of insane grandiosity, you know, like columns and neon and... You have to be careful, too, because what you think of as the '80s is really more like mid-'80s-  

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Right

CAT SMITH: end of the '80s. So, like, you're talking about late '70s and that particular time, which is so glam and so, like, disco in a way.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Right. And it's not only the early 1980s, it's the early 1980s in Los Angeles.

CAT SMITH: Yes.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: And so I'm wondering what your memories are of LA during that time and sort of what stands out for you

Obviously, you were very young at the time, but is there anything that sort of comes to mind when you, when you think back to that period?

CAT SMITH: It's, like, dirty, and it's... There's, like, a certain grubbiness to it, too. Of course, everything you saw on TV was very glamorous, but the unfinishedness of the city. Like, there's a certain time when the city sheds the skin of the '70s and the '60s.

And then new, new places come in, but the old places still linger. That's what I remember of the '80s. I remember, like, gang battles. I remember cocaine. I remember lots of really dark stuff. Plus, I also, I worked in a record store, and that was also the beginning of, like, pornography on videotape.  

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Well, I mean, you're mentioning cocaine, pornography.

It all fits in beautifully with the world of The Shards, let's be honest.  

CAT SMITH: Right, which is why I really love Ryan, because it's, like, exactly what I remember.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: So I'm always curious about the decision between shooting something on location and dressing it up versus building a set. And obviously you did both here on this show.

So how do you make that decision as to when to build versus when to find? 

CAT SMITH: If it's, like, a production value, like, well, we're only gonna be in here maybe a day in this episode, so it's not worth building it. And then come to find, you know, it shows up in five more episodes, and then you really should have built it.

I- normally I gauge how much, how many pages are in this particular location, and how likely in the story are we gonna come back to this? Things like The Hamburger Hamlet, we built that because we understood that they'd be coming at least once an episode to that place.  

EVAN ROSS KATZ: So you mentioned The Hamburger Hamlet.

Obviously, this show features so many iconic 1980s Los Angeles locations, Hamburger Hamlet among them, the Westwood Theater, and The Galleria. How did you approach recreating or transforming these spaces for the period?  

CAT SMITH: Well, I did have, like, a lot of memory about the Galleria. That was a place that I had been in real life. 

It was such a specific look. Like, I don't, I don't know if you've seen any pictures of the original Galleria, but it is a very particular look to that particular time period. So getting to that design, people think that you have a lot of money to do whatever you want, but really, we had to, like, pin down where we were gonna look, what we were gonna do. 

We went to a mall that had a similar roof line, just like this maze of metal and skylight. It was three story, and it had, like, this metal railing and red carpet everywhere. You're sort of building a world that costs a lot of money, and you're fixating on certain elements that you can put that money into so that you're not spending a million dollars on it. 

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Right.

CAT SMITH: Cause you don't, you don't have anything close to a million dollars. So, you know, I think all in all, we did seven or eight stores, and we did it in a real shopping center, and we put red carpet wherever we thought we were gonna look, basically. And I have no idea what it looked like, 'cause I never...

I haven't seen it yet.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Oh, it's really good. Is there a particular set or visual sequence in the show that you're particularly proud of?

CAT SMITH: Oof. I mean, obvious- I really love the Galleria, like... Oh, but Brett's house-

EVAN ROSS KATZ: I was just gonna say, we have to talk about Brett's house.

CAT SMITH: Brett's house was so incredible because I was 100% in love with the exterior of the house. 

It had this division that was really interesting, kind of curved around, and then there was, like, a lower story. So we took this house that had been renovated, and then we turned it back into the mid-century house that was kind of my, um, ideal. We changed the kitchen around so that, you know, we had this, like, rust-colored tile. 

We covered the floor in rugs because, of course, nobody likes carpet like the '80s. It's one of those things where you think the whole time, "Oh my God, is it gonna work?" Y- it- you just have to trust that it will, that the process, that it'll all come together and it'll all look like something, and it did. It was, it was really exciting.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: So you described the Los Angeles of the early 1980s as, is it fair to say, like... Kinda it sounds, from what you're describing, a little bit drab. Like, it kind of was not in the, not as glamorous as conveyed in this show necessarily. Correct?

CAT SMITH: Right. It's more, like, dystopian.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Right. But there's something also very unsettling about the wealth at the tips of these teenagers' fingers.

Mm-hmm. It feels, to me, like that's all over the screen. And so I'm wondering how that, especially in contrast to that Los Angeles you described, how that crept its way into every aspect of the design here.  

CAT SMITH: Well, it's because, like, as someone who went to private school in Los Angeles, I felt that every day. I didn't have a lot of money, but my parents, you know, wanted to pay for education, so I went. 

I we- I was like, you know, I, I took the public transportation to get there. Um, the difference between what they had and what I had was amazing. So that's kind of built into my DNA, like, what that wealth is, as an observer-  

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Mm ...

CAT SMITH: what that is.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: So the Los Angeles of The Shards is one that you were aware of, like, by proxy of going to private school, it sounds like.

CAT SMITH: Yes, exactly.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Yeah.

CAT SMITH: Exact- the exact world.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Yeah.

CAT SMITH: I mean, we lived, like, within walking distance of the school of the book.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Was it surreal for you? Just, like, it sounds like this book in so many senses like, you have such a proximity to so much of what's written about in this book.

CAT SMITH: Yes.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: And here you are working on this adaptation of the book.

I mean, there's just an element to that that feels so, um, meant to be. Do you, did you feel that way at all?

CAT SMITH: Well, I definitely felt that way, um, and that's why I pursued it so vigorously. I was like, "I am never getting this opportunity again to be so closely linked to something that I have experienced so vividly."

I still can't even believe I got the job, to be honest with you. I mean, I can and I can't. Obviously, I knew the people involved, so that helped.  

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Mm-hmm. I wanna ask you about working with Ryan, because as I mentioned up top, it's your second time on a Ryan Murphy project. You've been in, in this industry for quite some time, so you've had the opportunity to work with a number of writers, directors, creators, what have you.

What, in your mind, distinguishes Ryan and his work sensibility?  

CAT SMITH: Well, for sure he is the most interested in design of anybody I've ever worked for, bar none. He's got, like, this crazy knowledge of so many aspects of design. Like, the guy who basically has the final say is the guy with the best taste. I mean, that's insane.

That's the best case scenario. He'll, like, say something like, "Oh, I want it to look like the 1998 cover for Interiors Magazine." And you're like, "What?" And then in the mail, no more than five minutes later, the cover comes to you.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Wow. 

CAT SMITH: It's really special. I mean, it's, it's so much... I've never had this much fun.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: Well, Cat, thank you so much. Congratulations on the show. This has been a joy. 

CAT SMITH: Thanks.

EVAN ROSS KATZ: That's all for this time. On the next podcast, I'll be joined by stars Hayes Warner and Igby Rigney. Be sure to rate, review, and follow The Shards official podcast. You can check it out on Hulu or wherever you get your podcasts. And watch new episodes of The Shards on FX and Hulu. I'm Evan Ross Katz, and I'll see you next time.